Episode 58: Mary Ellen Gillespie on Giving Student-Athletes the Tools to Change the World
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How are changes like NIL, student-athlete employment status and unionization, the transfer portal, and conference realignment/collapse transforming college athletics? How can institutions adapt? How can they equip student athletes with the skills and tools to change the world? We dive into these questions with Mary Ellen Gillespie, Deputy Director at the Women's Basketball Coaches Association.
In the traditional view of higher education, athletics and academics often exist in separate worlds—one focused on the library, the other on the stadium. However, Mary Ellen Gillespie, Deputy Director of the Women's Basketball Coaches Association and former Athletic Director, argues that this siloed thinking is a missed opportunity. College athletics is far more than just winning games; it is a powerful vehicle for building student resilience, fostering lifelong relationships, and driving institutional visibility. As the landscape of higher education shifts, the integration of athletics into the broader mission of student success has never been more critical.
Redefining Student Success in the Modern Campus
Success for a college student isn't just about a high GPA or a trophy in a display case. For Gillespie, the definition of success is holistic. It starts with a student feeling safe and comfortable in their surroundings, allowing them to form the deep relationships and mentorships that sustain them through challenges. The ultimate goal is graduation, but the journey involves being challenged both intellectually and personally. When students feel a sense of belonging, they are more likely to stay engaged and ultimately graduate with a "toolbox" of skills ready to change the world.
The Dual Role of Athletics: Student Athletes and the Community
Athletics impacts two distinct groups: the student athletes themselves and the wider university community. For the athlete, it is an opportunity to pursue a passion and compete at a high level. Interestingly, Gillespie notes that student athletes often mirror the fraternity and sorority populations—they are highly visible groups that require significant resources but also offer high rewards for institutional brand building.
Beyond the athletes, the "ripples in the pond" effect shows that sports engage thousands of other students. From the marching band and dance teams to student journalists, camera operators, and kinesiology students gaining hands-on experience, athletics provides a massive lab for professional development and high-stress decision-making. It acts as a platform for local and national visibility while driving deep-seated campus pride.
Navigating the Transfer Portal and NIL Landscape
Current college athletics trends are reshaping the business model of higher education. The introduction of Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) and the transfer portal has created a "free agency" atmosphere that can devalue the pursuit of a degree. While the concept of NIL allows students to monetize their talents, the ease of transferring often leads to lower graduation rates. Gillespie warns that the lack of "loyalty" to an institution is often fueled by bad advice, where students chase playing time or money without realizing that their credits may not transfer, ultimately hindering their path to a degree.
The Looming Challenge: Employee Status and Title IX
One of the most significant concerns for higher education leadership is the potential classification of student athletes as employees. This shift would raise complex questions regarding taxes, health insurance, and workers' compensation. Perhaps most critically, it threatens the future of women’s sports. If athletes are employees, the legal protections of Title IX may be challenged, and smaller institutions may struggle to maintain a broad range of sports programs. Leaders must stay ahead of these legal shifts to ensure that the core mission of education isn't lost in the transition to a professionalized model.
A Collaborative Future for Coaches and Administrators
To adapt to these changes, the silos between athletics and the rest of the campus must be dismantled. Coaches are often the primary mentors for students, yet they are frequently overwhelmed, acting as de facto mental health counselors without the proper training or support. Gillespie advocates for a collaborative approach where provosts, general counsels, and student affairs professionals work together to support both the athletes and the staff who lead them. By investing in the mental health and professional development of coaches, institutions ensure that the students receive the best possible care and guidance.
Summary: Building the Connected College
College athletics remains a unique hallmark of the American higher education system. While the challenges of NIL, conference realignment, and employee status are daunting, they also provide an opportunity for leaders to reaffirm their values. By prioritizing graduation, maintaining equity in support services, and fostering open communication between the president’s office and the athletic department, universities can ensure that athletics continues to be a bridge, not a barrier, to student success.
Episode 58 Transcript
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Mary Ellen Gillespie: I always want a student to be comfortable in their surroundings. I want them to feel safe. I want them to be involved. I want them to form relationships and friendships. I want them to find some mentors. I want for them to be challenged intellectually, personally. Um, I want them to make friendships. That will last a lifetime and I want them to graduate.
Elliot Felix: That was the great Mary Ellen Gillespie, the deputy director of the Women's Basketball Coaches Association, who's held a number of roles in higher ed from advancement to athletic director. We had a really great conversation about everything that's changing in college athletics, NIL, the transfer portal, unionization and employee status for student athletes, conference upheavals. And then we talk about how institutions can adapt and And my favorite part is how we get into how athletics are bigger than winning on the field or the court. They're about building skills and relationships and resilience. So students really can go out and change the world. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome to the Connected College Podcast. I'm your host, Elliot Felix. I've helped more than a hundred colleges and universities change what they offer, how they operate, and how they're organized to enable student success. And if you're a leader in higher ed, and you think that the silos and separations get in the way of student success, then this podcast and my upcoming book, The Connected College, are for you. We're here to learn and work together to bust silos, question tradition, and forge partnerships so that students feel connected to their college, their community. Their coursework and their careers. College athletics is such an important part of student life, not only for student athletes, but for the college or university community as a whole. a sense of spirit, it's a sense of identity, it's competition, it's building skills, it's leading people, it's being led. It's so many things to so many people. And I am super excited to dive into this topic with Mary Ellen Gillespie, who is a seasoned student affairs professional, a former athletic director, And currently the Deputy Director of the Women's Basketball Coaches Association. Really excited to dig into college athletics. Welcome, Mary Ellen.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Great. Thanks for having me.
Elliot Felix: You know, a great place to start is hear a little bit about how you got your start. How did you get to where you are uh, in college athletics?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Yeah, for someone who has worked in college athletics for a long time, they might think that my path is a little non traditional in that I actually grew up in the student affairs side of higher education, which is where I've spent just about all of my career. Um, I was a student leader on campus. And thought that was the greatest thing. Someone told me that you can actually do that for a career. And so, um, went on to get my master's degree in student affairs practice and college counseling. And my first start was really in Greek life and spent, um, you know, almost a decade working at Plattsburgh State and the University of Iowa and Greek life. And we all know that the tentacles of Greek life kind of span out. I was a hall director. I ran the, Summer Orientation Program, but you also get to work with Career Services, and the Counseling Center, and Alumni and Development, and so had a great experience, got to work with great students, and had wonderful mentors who um, you know, thought that my professional and personal development was important, so they invested in me, and, um, After Greek life, I moved over to development on the academic side and was part of capital campaign in Nursing and Health Sciences and had a great experience there, but it was through my Greek connections that I got that opportunity and When you work in development, uh, you know, you have to work with the different areas on campus. And so I had been working with some folks in Purdue Athletics on some combined philanthropic gifts. We worked well together. And there was a gentleman there who was going to have an opening at Purdue. Um, and so we were talking about me shifting from the academic side, going to Purdue athletics when he got the AD job at Bowling Green in Ohio. And he said, look, I need a fundraiser. He's like, I like your student affairs background because you know how an institution works. At Bowling Green at the time, athletics reported up to student affairs. I knew the vice president for student affairs from that Greek world, um, and so it was just the perfect fit. And so that's where I got my start in athletics, uh, at Bowling Green State University and then worked my way up there, um, worked really hard, was surrounded by great people, and that's what catapulted me into the athletic director job. Um, and so, uh, You know, was the athletic director of two Division One institutions, University of Wisconsin at Green Bay and the University of Hartford, and then got a phone call about, um, coming down to Atlanta with the Women's Basketball Coaches Association. Um, I had done a lot of work with women's basketball when I worked in athletics. Um, and so it just seemed , like a perfect fit. And so I believe in coaches and developing people. Um, and so it'll be four years next month.
Elliot Felix: That's amazing. Isn't it great when what you do as a student gives you a clue as to what you should do your career? Um, I had a little bit of that where, um, when I was in grad school, I was involved in student government and uh, you know, we did town hall meetings and a survey and talked to lots of students and, you know, Heard their concerns and wrote a report and took it to the administration. And, , it's not that different than the higher ed strategy consulting I do now. And I think it's so great when you have like, you get a clue, you know, you get a glimpse into your future when you're a student.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: We do. It was great. I'm very, very lucky. I had a great undergrad experience and it just opened so many doors for me.
Elliot Felix: Um, I would love to hear opening doors opening doors is 1 of the key aspects of this, but like, how do you um, define student success?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: , you know, it's not an easy question to answer because you can have such a cut and dry answer, but there's so much involved in ensuring success. And, um, you know, for me, I would always tell parents of incoming students or parents of student athletes that I was working with. I always want a student to be comfortable in their surroundings. I want them to feel safe. I want them to be involved. I want them to form relationships and friendships. I want them to find some mentors. I want for them to be challenged intellectually, personally. Um, I want them to make friendships. That will last a lifetime and I want them to graduate because I would always tell parents graduation day was always one of my favorite days working on a college campus because I feel like all the love and tough love that we have poured into young people, you know, culminates in that day. And so I believe that we have given them the toolbox Right that they need to go out and then go change the world, go contribute to society, go pay some of this forward, go be involved. Um, and so, for me, that's how I define student success, um, you know, is straight A student success. for some people, but I want them comfortable. I want them safe. I want them having fun. Um, that's all part of that development, you know, spectrum of, you know, college student development, developing young people.
Elliot Felix: I think it's a great checklist. You know, are you comfortable? Are you safe? Are you having fun? Are you getting involved? Are you building relationships? Do you feel challenged, you know, and have you with the tools to change the world. Uh, I love that. That's really great.
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Elliot Felix: Um, so, if that's what student success is, we're setting up students to succeed so they can make an impact, so they can change the world, so they can have these lifelong friendships, um, what role does, athletics play In that, and I'm thinking about this kind of like twofold for student athletes, but also for the university community at large.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Right, so, I'll start with the student athlete piece because like that you're separating into two buckets. Um, for a student athlete piece, no matter what level, Division 1, Division 2, 3, 2 year college, NAIA institutions. It's an opportunity for a student to continue to play their passion, And something that's been so important to them, they get to take with them and keep doing it um, they get to compete for championships, right? And that's of the very cornerstones of the NCAA is that you get to compete for a championship. The other piece is at some of your higher levels and at some of your, you know, more visible sports. You're playing on TV, you're getting noticed, and for that small, less than 1%, there's an opportunity to play that passion at a higher level. I always tell people, you know, my background started in Greek life. There are no two student populations on a campus more similar. Greeks, fraternity and sorority, men and women,
Elliot Felix: and
Mary Ellen Gillespie: athletes. They, they, they face and deal with some of the same societal issues, right? Um, alcohol, drugs, um, you know, social media, hazing, you know, there's some of that in both of those buckets. Um, There are also two student populations where they probably get a little bit more resources on a college campus. There are also two segments of the student population that can lift an institution up,
Elliot Felix: and
Mary Ellen Gillespie: in a split second, they can drop an institution, um, through media and anything. So because of that, because of that risk reward, They have to have more resources devoted to them. So there are two visible groups, life in a fishbowl for a student athlete, um, and developing them and how to deal with that. Um, but for student athlete success, it's my checklist from earlier, but it's also, it's an opportunity for them to continue to play their passion and to compete for a championship and for some to play at the very next level. And then from the more holistic approach for a campus and for the rest of the student body. Um, I think it actually impacts more students than student athletes, intercollegiate athletics. You know, you, go to, I'm going to use basketball as an example, a division one women's basketball team is allowed 15 women on the bench and men can have 13, right? So people are coming to watch a basketball game. But there's about 30, 40, 50 students in the band. There's maybe 20 cheerleaders. There's maybe 15 dance team members. There's probably 3 or 4 student managers. Ticket takers, ushers. Um, there is such an opportunity for students to be involved in athletics and gain volunteer opportunities, employment opportunities, you know, learning to make decisions in high stress situations or in campus events. So those are really, you know, people are coming for a basketball game, but there's a big production and students. You know, some of them are behind the camera for the TV station, right?
Elliot Felix: Journalism. Sure.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Yeah. So um, you know, graduate students who are maybe doing athletic training or kinesiology are probably working with student athletes, strength, , um, tying that academic to the athletic piece. And then, you know, your outdoor sports, your softball, your baseball, you know, soccer in the fall, you know, some of those poor students are standing out there freezing cold. I worked in Green Bay and always wanted to make sure that the students taking tickets or checking student IDs at the door were warm, that we were outfitting them appropriately. So we wanted them to feel as though they were really part of the team and I think that's And then the fan piece, right? Look at those student sections at athletic events. It's a way for them to just be really involved. And my definition for collegiate athletics really has always been, it is a platform for local, regional, and national visibility, but it's also a vehicle that helps drive student, campus, and community. Pride and engagement and, you know, a high functioning athletic department. If they can produce that they're doing a great job.
Elliot Felix: I got the image of like ripples in a pond, right? Because you have like the team at the center, but then you have the band and the dance and the fans and the media and the production. There's just so many ways to broaden the circle um, and get involved. And, , have that greater impact.
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Elliot Felix: Um, what's changing about collegiate athletics in your mind, what are the like trends you're spotting or things you're on the lookout for, or you, you see folks adapting to?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Oh, Elliot, that could be a whole podcast in and of itself. Um I'll tell you, um, There's so much going on right now in collegiate athletics, and there is going to be a ripple because your division one institutions and really your most visible division one institutions, um, are what everybody sees, right? So, the general person thinks college athletics is, you know, you're Tennessee, you're Iowa, you're Alabama, right? You know, those schools are actually the smallest percentage of Division I institutions, but it's what everybody sees. So, you probably see in the news, you know, everything's an acronym, NIL, name, image, and likeness. You know, the concept of that, actually agree with, because it used to be, and I'll take a student athlete who is an art major. Any non student athlete could make art in class and go sell it at the art fair on campus. But if you are a student athlete years ago, an art major making an art project in class, you cannot sell it at the student fair. Because you're, you're making money. And so, that has changed. Um, you know, that's the small example. The other examples are, there are top tier Division I athletes who people want to buy the jerseys with their name on it. Well, years ago, you couldn't do that. And now you can. And so, There's been a little bit of a change in the tides there, which I'm okay with that concept. What I struggle with is, I do think a challenge in athletics today, I think the value of having a college degree has been devalued. Right. I think promising high school juniors and seniors, six figures, seven figures, before they've even played it down, done a tip off, a face off, have a problem with that. I think, um, someone's always going to push the envelope. Someone's always going to say, how far can we take this before someone gets caught doing something wrong? And so that mentality, I think, is a challenge.
Elliot Felix: just a quick follow up, are you saying the problem is Like the cost of college is going up and the perceived value is going down at the same time. There are now all these new ways to monetize things through NIL. And so people might be like skipping college or part of it.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: I actually think no longer is getting a degree used in the recruiting model. I think this transfer portal, there's no loyalty on the part of a student athlete to finish for the institution that they committed to, if they can get more money or more visibility somewhere else, and the data shows that if you transfer your percentage or your likelihood of graduating decreases. And so, there's a lot of people out there who give bad advice to college student athletes. athletes . you're not getting enough playing time, I'll get you in over here. Or a parent who thinks, oh, he can be on TV or she can be on TV more here. Um, and so they leave. And, you know, the ripple effect of that is, well, they have to get accepted somewhere else. Maybe not all those credits are going to transfer. And that's what nobody advises the student athletes on.
Elliot Felix: It's so interesting because the transfer outcomes, um, for non athletes generally transfers perform better academically. Um, Um, Because they have like, you know, more preparation, more organization, know what they want, you know, for a whole host of reasons. You know, after maybe some transfer shock, but the idea that when student athletes transfer, they don't do as well is really great. Interesting and unfortunate. Um, you know, it's like come here to get a degree is no longer a selling point. It sounds like that's a pretty big shift.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: It is. And that I'm such a, um. Some people used to say I would have my rose colored glasses on, right? And, um, you know, when I was a young athletics administrator, I'd be like, but you're getting a degree! Like, you will graduate debt free! And, you know, that just doesn't get talked about anymore. Um, and so, uh, you know, I, think it makes me a little sad. I also have come to know that you've got to change with the times, but I always think the number one goal should be to graduate a student athlete, that is the commitment every institution makes to any incoming student, is we are going to help them get a degree.
Elliot Felix: It's student athlete, right? Not athlete student.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Yeah.
Elliot Felix: I mean, NIL, like changing, and potentially compensating student athletes. I mean, those are like huge business model changes. And then the degree and the transfer portal and the loyalty, um, I could see how that would really shake things up.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: , um, you know, I think I'm over the NIL thing. What scares me is if student athletes. are someday, if they are ever classified as employees, I feel like that decision is going to be made before a lot of questions have answers. So for someone who has worked in higher ed her whole life, if a student athlete is an employee, then is an athletic department really bound by Title IX? And then are we going to lose women's sports? Right? That's going to be the first thing to get looked at. If their employees, you know, I look at that NFL model or an NBA model where you know, you might play for the Green Bay Packers, but if you're playing at the Meadowlands at Mile High Stadium, you're paying taxes in those states. Like is anyone talking to student athletes that if you become employees. And you go play, you know, you're the student athlete at Penn State. And now you have to play in Iowa, in Maryland, in Oregon. Are they going to have to pay taxes? No one is talking to student athletes about that.
Elliot Felix: Well, I think it's really interesting. And the Title IX thing too. if you listen to, um, Richard Reeves or Scott Galloway or any of the people that are talking about the decline, uh, you know, and the imbalance, By gender in higher ed enrollment, and that we're at, you know, 55, 45. the gap in favor of women is bigger than it was the other way around you know, 30 years ago when. Title IX was created. Yep. So, you know, people are already thinking about that from that perspective. And if you layer on the, um, students as employees, that's a whole other side.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Right. And then if you're at a smaller resource institution, and if they are granted employee status, Well, then should I have to charge them for every ace bandage and every hour of physical therapy that they're getting? Because I could do that if they're employees, right? Like, they're health insurance with that. So, I mean, it's just, there's all these questions that just I'm afraid decisions are going to be made without looking at every scenario.
Elliot Felix: um, what are some great examples of institutions responding to the changes? You know, as you look across the country, who's doing really interesting stuff? on student athlete success in your mind?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Yeah, you know, there's several places, I think, that are really, um, focused on providing great experiences, um, for student athletes, while also, um, making it a part of overall university life, and I think that the clearest division that does that well, because it's just What they're founded on is your Division III institutions, you know, you don't have athletic scholarships, and so, um, you know, they continue to Use athletics as an enrollment driver, but then as a student life driver. Um, it's such a big component. Um, I think you'll start to see some division one institutions. the university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill does a really good job, um, of really providing a great experience, but also they have their finger on the pulse of all these issues. They want to be a leader in it. Um, the University of Iowa does, very well, uh, with that. Um, not
Elliot Felix: too bad in women's basketball either.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Right, exactly. , it's gotta start from the top, right? So, college presidents. In my mind, the buck stops with the college president. The AD is important, the head coaches are important, but the college president is charged with making the best decisions, in the best interest of that institution, from every angle. And I think college presidents have got to start weighing in. And look, athletics is very sexy for a campus. But if a college president only wants to be involved when it's exciting and they're on TV and they're winning a championship, it's a recipe for disaster. They've got to be in uh, from every single anGle.
Elliot Felix: what's the right degree of involvement versus delegation because I feel like a lot of college presidents, Um, you know, maybe get caught by surprise about how many decisions and how complicated, uh, athletics is, and some seem like they're pretty hands off and others seem like they're hands on. Right. Who's striking that balance, right? Do you think, or is there any secret to success there?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: I think as open and honest of a relationship that an AD and a president can have only works to benefit the institution. In my mind, the most important relationship an AD has is with the president. Um, and that's really at any level. I know at a lot of Division II and Division III institutions, the direct report is to the VP of Student Affairs, which I think is fine because they are such an ingrained piece of the student life component, but the president still has to know, um, they have to have their finger on the pulse of the enterprise. Because like I said earlier, athletics can elevate an institution, but it can bring it down. Everyone is just one, one compliance decision away from a disaster.
Elliot Felix: Um, in changes, we didn't talk about conference realignment.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: That's a
Elliot Felix: pretty big one too, right?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Um, look, I love TV, I watch ESPN, I watch ESPN 2, 3, you know, but I think, um, the amount of money that's involved in TV um, and the need for money in an arms race to have the best facilities, to get the best student athletes, um, to win the most championships, to bring more money to the institution, to elevate our admissions and enrollment, um, you know, tV and money guide a lot of decisions and I, I don't always think that's in the best interest of an institution. Um, my heart breaks that one of the oldest division one athletic conferences basically was dismantled in 48 hours. as someone who works in higher ed, I like to ask questions about, so who was around the table when that decision was made, right? Like who? A transformational decision like that. Who was around the table and, and did you get to assemble them all within 24, 48 hours? And did we ask the field hockey student athlete who now has to go?
Elliot Felix: Get on a plane. Yeah.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Right? Because they're not flying charter. Your football and your basketball teams are, but your field hockey team is not. So I just, you know, asked my colleagues at some of those schools who made those decisions.
Elliot Felix: Yeah. With the conference realignment and some of these things, there's also, it sounds like an equity issue between, you know, tier 1 and tier 2 sports, um,
Mary Ellen Gillespie: right, there just has to be, , but I will say. What should never suffer in all these realignments or, you know, needing to reallocate just about every school in the country, division one, division two, division three, they do tier their sports to an extent. And, that's just, that's a business model, right? Um, but what should never be tiered is The level of academic support and counsel and tutoring, the level of nutrition, resources, the attention, in the weight room or the training room, right? Like your cross country athlete should have the ability to be trained and to be rehabbed just as much as the football player. those services should never be tiered.
Elliot Felix: That's a really interesting point, you know, a distinction that some things have to be you know, revenue agnostic and, you know, the football team having a new practice facility may be unavoidable. But, um, you know, you can't have second tier PT or nutrition.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Right. When it comes to student, athlete, academic and health, physically and mental, there should not be any tiering in that. Now, the tiering that will happen, okay, maybe the soccer team will only travel regionally. But your football team will get on a plane and go somewhere else. But knowing that when I worked at Bowling Green, we went down to play the University of Florida, came home with a 1. 2 million check, but that also goes to help support gymnastics, tennis, golf. Um, and so there are definitely business decisions that have to be made.
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Elliot Felix: I feel like that was the perfect segue into our last question about advice for your peers. And I feel like the 1st tier of advice is, you know, equity in academic health and wellness, uh, nutrition support. , you know, what other advice do you have for, um, people leading college athletics to enable student success?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: There has to be university buy in that athletics is an important component to not just student athletes, but the university life piece. And I think, you know, you and I have both been part of those conversations. The academics doesn't like athletics and athletics doesn't like academics, right? Like just not waste time on that anymore. But let's have honest conversations. Let's make decisions based on values. Um, And integrity. Let's have integrity in everything that we do. Um, you know, we've got to be educating student athletes. Okay, you want to be an employee? Here's what that looks like. You want NIL money? Okay, here's your tax form. Uncle Sam wants your taxes. Right? Um, and so those conversations I don't think are happening enough. You want to go into the transfer portal? Okay, just know that as soon as you put your name in the portal, We don't have to extend your scholarship. We're going to go out and replace you. But 22 percent of those students in the transfer portal are not landing anywhere. That's why getting the degree is not happening, is that they're not landing anywhere. Um, and so, that's a big issue. got to be having these conversations and at the same time, you need to be educating your provost that this is happening and, you know, people around the cabinet table, who think that doesn't impact them. It does. It does because the athletic department can't handle all that on their own. Like they have got to, you know, the general counsel's office, the provost office, they have to know all that. Um, and so my other advice to people I've always had this philosophy everywhere I've gone. You cannot operate in a silo, I'm a collaborator. I'm a team player. I never want athletics in a silo. it's not a recipe for success.
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Elliot Felix: That's great advice. Equity of support, define the role of athletics in university life, educate students around NIL and around the transfer portal, and work in collaboration, silos.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Yeah, and I think too, I have always valued coaches. Working for a coaches association now, my other advice to my administration colleagues on both academics and student affairs side of the house is coaches need more help and support. And they are often relied on to know everything about every single one of their student athletes and take care of their mental health because the line out the door to get an appointment on a counseling center on campus is a 3 week wait. Oh, and the office closes at 5 o'clock on Friday. Most student athletes need help on weekends and after 7pm at night, um, after they lose a game, after they miss a big shot, and social media trolls are threatening them, and there's nobody to help them on the weekend, so the coach feels as though they have to. Coaches are not, for the most part, are not mental health licensed practitioners, but they feel as though they have to help, um, and no one's helping them. And, you know, we saw this in the pandemic, Coaches who have families home going through you know, virtual learning, but they're also having to keep their student athletes on campus. Making sure they're doing their virtual learning. Going through a pandemic that no one's ever been through before. These coaches had no break.
Elliot Felix: It's a lot, yeah. No
Mary Ellen Gillespie: break. And we talk so much about students and student athlete mental health. No one, campuses are not looking at coaches to be like, how can we help you, right? And so, um, We've got to find more support for coaches who are touching these student athletes every day. Them, their trainer, and their strength coach are the three people that touch a student athlete every day.
Elliot Felix: Yeah, such an important point because you know, there's the, famous Richard Branson quote, you know, customers don't come first, employees come first because then they take care of your customers. I mean, he said it a lot better than that. I'm paraphrasing, but I mean, if your coaches aren't supported, then neither will your student athletes be. Uh, um, you can't have one without the other. So, um, Mary Ellen, thank you so much for your insights. Is there anything else, um, you want to share when it comes to college athletics and student success?
Mary Ellen Gillespie: You know, I think it is such an incredible, um, it's really the thing that sets us apart from other higher education systems in other countries is we have this intercollegiate athletics piece. Right? It's so unique, so incredible. It's such a humanistic enterprise that is just, you know, for someone who grew up in student affairs, to be able to get pride and excitement and spirit going on a campus, there's just nothing like it. Um, and so piece that I believe so fully in. I think we have incredible challenges right now. We need incredibly good, strong people to help us through these challenges. don't see it getting easier. I see it getting a little bit more challenging. Um, but we need good leaders and we need college presidents. We need good ADs. We need good provosts to be involved and supportive, um, and in the know in good times and in bad times. We can't do it by ourselves.
Elliot Felix: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your insights and, uh, this great conversation.
Mary Ellen Gillespie: Yeah. Thanks, Elliot. I enjoyed it.
Elliot Felix: Thanks for listening to the connected college podcast. Subscribe to my Connected College Newsletter at ElliotFelix. com for insights and excerpts from my upcoming book, tools you can download, and special offers. You can also find more information about talks I've given, articles I've written, and upcoming events there, and please support the podcast by rating and reviewing it wherever you're listening. Let's create connected colleges where students will succeed.